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JAY: Well, they also insured them. So they were betting both ways: they rode it on the way up, and when it crashed they had insurance money. Of course, it turned out to be public money through AIG that wound up in Goldman Sachs’ pockets.
COCKBURN: Sure. I mean, what Michael Greenberger was talking about there was the creation of the legalization of this credit default swap, which is basically a form of gambling. It’s basically a way of taking bets, making bets on whether companies and bonds and various other financial instruments would fail or not, and it was actually something that was rendered illegal in 1929. So they legalized it, and that enabled them to make, basically—well, to persuade themselves that they weren’t taking any risk in them giving people these very, you know, squishy loans, the subprime loans, and all sorts of other credit, like cars. They’d taken bets so that if they failed, if the loans went bad, they were covered. I mean, it gets a little bit more complicated than that, but that’s basically it. This kind of legalized gambling, Wall Street gambling, this is really almost a culminating stage of something that had been going on since at least 1980, or since the Reagan administration, ’cause what Reagan and his merry men hated and what Wall Street always hated was the New Deal, was the reaction to the 1929 crash when, you know, we’d had all sorts of regulation and law enforcement, which had stopped these idiots, you know, for a while at least, you know, bringing the economy down around our ears. But, you know, with all sorts of legislative, you know, lobbying and paying off politicians and corrupting the media and, you know, part of a huge offensive, what we had was the stage set by 2000 for the whole lawless condition on Wall Street that has brought us, you know, the current financial meltdown, which is still going on.
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